Sunny Banana
I am a school chaplain and the content is intended to encourage curiosity about Faith and it's impact on day to day life
The Sunny Banana, is a play upon the Zulu greeting, Sanibonani, meaning I see you.
As tech wrenches us from real life, we are not seeing each other. The Greek word 'idea' means to see. It is as if we have lost the idea of what it means to be human; social, communal, relational. The same word, to see, in Old English is 'seon' which has connotations of understanding.
Let's start seeing each other again, listening, respecting, and understanding each other and ourselves. After all, we are people through other people.
Sunny Banana
Nate Morgan Locke | Unlocking the Power of Stories
What if the stories we love, from ancient myths to modern video games, could offer profound insights into our own lives? Join us as we welcome Nate Morgan Locke, the creative director at Speak Life, who identifies as a "reformed mythologist." With a unique ability to weave Reformed Christian beliefs into storytelling, Nate takes us on a journey through the universal nature of narratives and their power to shape personal values and worldviews, regardless of religious beliefs. From the Incredible Hulk to age-old legends, explore how the fabric of stories influences who we are and who we can become.
In an era where attention is a precious commodity, we delve into the intersection of faith and focus, inspired by thinkers like C.S. Lewis and Simone Weil. Discover how the Bible's unique blend of myth and historical fact offers a compelling narrative that challenges modern distractions and invites us to consider the deeper truths of existence. Through the lens of Christianity, we discuss how practices like prayer and communal worship serve as powerful tools to reclaim our concentration amidst the noise of the digital age.
Finally, we tackle the art of genuine presence and the importance of being truly attentive in a world dominated by screens. Nate shares how life extends beyond consuming online content, urging young people to realize their potential and impact within their communities. This episode is a heartfelt invitation to listeners to engage with the world meaningfully, supported by the timeless wisdom of stories and the grounding principles of faith.
All right, yeah, so we sat here with Nate. Please remind me of your surname, nate Morgan Locke.
Speaker 2:Nate Morgan Locke. That's right, the full name is Nathan James Hamden Morgan Locke. But Nate is usually enough to Nate will work.
Speaker 1:Nate's fine and we sat here at Speak Life in Eastbourne and we sat here at Speak Life in Eastbourne and I'm a chaplain and you are coming to our school hopefully, if all ends meet in January, to speak to our pupils. But for our listeners out there, can you tell us what it is you get up to and what you do here at Speak Life?
Speaker 2:so my official role at Speak Life is I'm the creative director, which is great, because no one's exactly sure what that means.
Speaker 2:So you can get away with stuff but basically in practice, I oversee the creative output that we produce, so, whether it's on videos or short films or podcasts, that kind of stuff, um, and that's my sort of role, but then within that I uh go by the title reformed mythologist, so that's usually something that provokes even more intrigue than just being creative. Director yeah, no, I think, um, yeah. Director yeah, no, I think, um, yeah, it's brilliant.
Speaker 1:So so the creative side of things, and I think there's uh pupils love, love that and they understand that. But I think when it comes to myth and then reformed uh, can you tell us a little bit about, um, yeah, how they come together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So Reformed, basically, is just the type of Christian that I am. So I'm not a Catholic Christian, I'm not an Orthodox Christian, I'm a Reformed Christian, so part of the Reformed tradition and that, amongst other things, has a very high view of Scripture. I wouldn't say that others don't. Um, certainly uses, believes in the bible, and the story that's in the bible is the kind of key, kind of, uh, reality that we have to kind of conform ourselves to and come to recognize and that god has revealed himself in the scriptures. So the story of the world is the story that has been told in the Bible and, as a Reformed Christian, I find that story to be delightful and the greatest story from in the beginning in Genesis, all the way through to forever after in Revelation. So that's the Reformed.
Speaker 2:And then the mythologist is basically two greek words mythos, which means story, and logos, which means word or the study of the logic of story. So a mythologist is someone who studies storytelling, yeah, and that's basically what I do. So I'm a christian who is engaged in studying stories, yeah, and that's whether they are ancient myths from the greeks or the romans or the egyptians or the polynesians or whoever, all the way through to the stories in our video games, animated shows, movies, theater productions, all that sort sort of stuff. So story is my kind of passion really, and I study them from a Christian perspective brilliant so let's go on there.
Speaker 1:I'm leaning towards the Orthodox Church myself, but the story allegory I find in the Orthodox tradition is very, very powerful and very, very focused upon. But this, is it so for our pupils that you'll come and speak to that perhaps aren't Christian, maybe practicing another religion, or they don't know how? How can this relate to their lives? How can this relate to us? Because you mentioned video games and I know a lot of them play video games. A lot of them you know movies and stories um. How does this relate?
Speaker 2:so I think it relates in part because everyone we live in a story world. So so, whether that is the stories that we're reading in books or watching on TV or seeing in the cinema or playing in the video games, just those little stories that capture our attention and that we love to spend time in and we love to kind of listen to and follow along with in, and we love to kind of listen to and follow along with, but also all of us, whatever religion or background or faith or whatever we've got, we are constructing our understanding of the world in terms of a story. We kind of can't help but do that, yeah. So the question isn't like whether you'll have a story or not, it's what is your story and how does that story connect to the other stories that you're aware of? And really that's the question I think for all of us is okay.
Speaker 2:So what is the story that I'm living in? And that we can use those questions around, stories like what happened in the beginning? Where did we come from? What is the origin? What is the furthest back you can go? Where does your story begin? Does your story begin in love? Is that where you came from? Have you come from a loving place? Are you going to end up in a happily ever after? Do you think your story has a happy ending or is it a tragedy? So those questions, I think are relevant to everyone. And, yeah, even if you don't really like thinking about that stuff which I know some people aren't so fussed about you probably have some stories, whether films, tv shows, whatever that you really enjoy, and I'm always interested to hear people tell me what their favorite stories are, who their favorite characters are, what the things they love are, because I think that sort of taps into who they are and that's a great opportunity for conversation, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've always loved the Incredible Hulk okay and so I used to do this meditation or reflection with my pupils is who is your hero? Like you're saying there, if they see strength, courage, loyalty in this hero that they see, that might tell you something for them about themselves and that so powerful stuff you said something about that you're aware of and some people don't like to talk about this or think about this.
Speaker 1:We're going to get to attention soon because attention is a big word, I think. As a chaplain, I think attention in religion, religion and faith and spirituality attention is a big thing and I think we're quite a distracted people at the moment with the information age. But I'm just trying to think and put my feet in the pupils and the listeners out there that don't know the Christian story or not Christian, they might say, yeah, this is just a story and a fairy tale. Ludwig Philbach, the guy who said everything that we think God is, is just a projection of what we want. What we want to see.
Speaker 1:What would you say to that? Yeah?
Speaker 2:I think there's lots of stuff you can say to that. In one sense I'd almost want to agree with it. Okay, fine, if what we believe about God is a projection of what we want to be true, you haven't solved the problem of why do we want this to be true? What is it about human beings that has these desires built in within us, and why is it that we're so motivated and driven to desire certain things about the world? So on that question, cs Lewis has a great point. If I find in myself desires which nothing in this world can satisfy, then I must conclude I was made for another world.
Speaker 2:So there's something quite you know even before we get into is christianity a fairy tale? Is it historically verifiable? There is an interesting thing that just stop and say why do people want things to be true, like, why can't we just accept the world sort of as it is? Why are we so heart driven? Yeah, and actually that is a really story understanding, because characters in stories not to go too much into story theory, but characters in stories are typically like desiring creatures. So you know, you get that line from what's the guy's name? Rene Descartes, I think. Therefore I am. Well, there's a great book about screenwriting by a guy named Jeremy Truby, and he says no, actually, when it comes to stories, it's notuby. And he says no, actually it's. When it comes to stories, it's not. I think, therefore, I am, it's I want, therefore, I am, so that you are not primarily a thinking creature, you are a desiring creature. That's what we are as human beings and that's what stories are about. The character wants something and that desire is usually met by some kind of obstacle and the question is, which one's going to win? The desire, are you going to be able to overcome the obstacle or is the obstacle going to win and you don't get what you want? So there's interesting stuff around desire and what we want. To be true, I think.
Speaker 2:To go back to the scriptures, the, the Bible records events as happening in this world, on this planet. You can go to the countries where these things are supposed to happen and you can dig down into the dirt and you can find coins or broken pots or whatever it is, and they might connect back. So you mentioned the Incredible Hulk connect back. So you mentioned the incredible hulk. Yeah, the incredible hulk as a story. Yes, it's got some. Like this is happening in, in, in in this world, although when it gets into the multiverse it all goes crazy. But there is a sense in which when, uh, what's his name? Who wrote the incredible hulk stan lee? Right, so, marvel, so he's writing that. But he's not claiming that this is historically accurate. He's just saying this is a comic book. Right, it's a really fun comic book and you might get something out of it. A lot of people do.
Speaker 2:But the Bible isn't claiming to be long ago in a land far, far away. It's not claiming for itself just this kind of imaginary fairy tale existence. It's claiming to be history. So there are so many points, particularly in the Old Testament, where you are told in the second year of the reign of Darius, king of Persia or whatever it might be, on the fourth day of the 13th month. You've got a timestamp and that is really interesting, because when we get a text message or we look at an old email or something, you can see okay, this thing was sent on this date by this person at this time, like that suddenly becomes a piece of history rather than just, well, there's an idea that's out there in the imagination.
Speaker 2:So the Bible's claim of itself is to be a historical text. Now, there are parts of it which are poetic and parts of it which are kind of legal documents or whatever it might be, but it's certainly claiming to be real history, particularly when you get to the New Testament. So the stories of Jesus, particularly the four gospels, luke's gospel particularly, is saying many have undertaken to write an account of these things and I've written this down so that you, the reader, would have an orderly account of what happened. It's claiming to have happened in real history. I think that's one of the most glorious things about the Christian story is that it's true. It's actually happened and people can you know, we can see the results of it when you go and dig around in the dirt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant, there's so much there to talk about. But you mentioned it. You mentioned what I like to and copy your fellow mythologist, martin shaw, who said, yeah, this story comes with a postcode. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can go to that river. Yeah, um, and ever since as a christian, ever since I heard that, I was like I actually never thought of that, because I got challenged a lot by people saying, oh, the story of Jesus and like a God dying and coming back to life, that's happening, like in Egyptian mythologies, it's happening with Odin, what's the difference? And I said, well, I didn't really have an answer, but now we have sort of an answer in terms of the postcode of these things happening. Another thing about myth and story is it tells a story without using facts. The myth, myths, traditional myths.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That we're talking about, yeah, but now when we step into Christianity, it's a. It's actually it does use facts, which is mind-boggling and a bit mysterious at the same time. So, yes, a lot to think about there. Let's move to attention. You did a wonderful talk at a Presbyterian church, I think it was called Hark and Behold, and Jesus also.
Speaker 1:He said a lot of the time, or was it one time? But anyway, he said that you know, those who have ears let them listen, those who have eyes let them see, and especially Sunny Banana on this podcast it's about ICU and it's about understanding my worry. So, to move to thinking about our pupils and people at large, the loneliness crisis, the meaning crisis, the uprootedness of the digital age, the isolation that that brings, the addiction that that brings, the addiction that that brings, and therefore the seduction of our attention or our limiting of our attention. Would you like to speak just a bit more into how religion and faith and spirituality can help us snap out of it yeah, the sleepwalking and bring us back together and start to see people again, start to listen to people again.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that I talk about in that talk to the Presbyterian Church was that we live in an attention economy. Now, I think this is pretty uncontrovertible, that there are a lot of people who are paying a lot of money to try and get your attention. So your eyeballs, your eardrums are for sale and your smartphone is a kind of attention harvesting device like that's what it's designed to do. It's designed to get your attention and keep your attention on the social media platforms are all attempting to get you onto them and keep you on them for as long as possible. Yeah, and that's how they make their money, right, they make their money from the advertising, and so in order to increase their profits in the economy, they need as many people as possible to be looking at content all the time, and that has been kind of ramped up.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's kind of one that has always been the case. People pay for signs on the side of the road or on the side of the bus or whatever it is, to try and get your attention and make you think about a particular thing. But we're living in a time when that has just been ramped up to an incredible degree and a lot of investigation scientifically has taken place into what's called persuasive technologies. So how do you get people's attention, how do you keep people's attention? And the most concentrated version of that that we have is the vertical video. Yeah, tiktok, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when TikTok comes along in 2016, it changes all the other social media platforms because they now all need their own vertical video scrolling yeah that you can never get to the end of, because the tests have been done and the most successful way of keeping someone's attention on a platform is to give them vertical videos which we flick through after two or three seconds most of the time.
Speaker 2:So that's the kind of culture in which our young people are growing up in, and well, a lot of you know, fully grown adults have got serious smartphone addiction and you know, and possibly for the younger teenagers, this has been a conversation that's been going for their whole lives already. For those of us who grew up before the internet and before the smartphone or whatever it is, we feel like a major shift has taken place, whereas for these teenagers, pupils at school, this conversation has been happening for the whole time. Facebook is probably older than most of them, in fact it must be, because Facebook was 2004 and we're now in 2024. So for 20 years, this has been a thing, a major thing, I think.
Speaker 2:When it comes to how religion, or how Christianity particularly, looks to remedy that situation, I think there are two things. The first thing is that Christianity is a religion of attention, which is why I call the talk hark and behold. So listen and look. These are biblical words. So the Bible says listen to the prophets. Right, god has something he wants to say. Can you hear him? Look, behold, which, interestingly, if you ever want someone to look at something you're really keen for them to see, it, don't just say like look, say behold, and they'll be like wow, like it's some sort of really important thing. So beholding, and and the christian.
Speaker 2:Christian salvation, yeah, is as we look at jesus. So it's so interesting that from a, from a christian point of view, the message is not try a bit harder, do better, like stop doing that and start doing this. The message is behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. So looking at Jesus is the solution to our problem, and we're all going to be like struggling with all sorts of things like whether that's anxiety or depression, or for us, like lust or all of this stuff that we're struggling with, all sorts of things, whether that's anxiety or depression or lust, all of this stuff that we're struggling with. Our solution is to look at a better thing that can solve our problem, which is the gospel. And so in that sense there's a kind of we were like God made our eyes, made our ears, he gave us the concept of attention in a Christian worldview, and in that Christianian worldview he says this is for your benefit, that you have eyes and ears to, to give your attention to stuff. So that's how we get, how the christian message solves some of the issues of distracted age and a kind of slavery, screen slavery kind of thing.
Speaker 2:The other thing, I suppose, is, then, that Christian discipleship and Christian practice is looking to develop people's attention, modes of attention through things like prayer or through things like Bible, or through things like Bible study, through things like communal worship, so that you're not just off by yourself trying to manage your screen time, but that you're pulled into a new way of living, a new life, as it were, which is, from a Christian point of view, being part of the church, which is the practices and the kind of Christian disciplines which help to kind of grow your attention really, and so much of the kind of anxiety thing, uh, that comes around. This is because the platform it wants you to be constantly distracted changing the subject, looking at something else, looking at something like it's trying to prevent you from really focusing on something. Yeah, um and yeah, that that's the sort of thing that leaves us feeling like we're sort of empty and washed out, because it's not healthy for us as human beings to be constantly kind of distracted by all those things.
Speaker 1:It leaves us feeling kind of anxious, as this book says well for our philosophy and religion pupils out there maybe A-level they may come across a word in Christianity called kenosis, which is an emptying, what Christ did on the cross, he emptied himself and maybe religion. Maybe it's so unpopular because it's not very attractive. It doesn't seem to give anything on the surface, but it's exact, very attractive. It doesn't seem to give anything on the surface, but it's exacting. It takes effort, you have to go somewhere, you have to go pray and sing and do things, and so therefore, it's the antidote to what the social media companies are doing, sucking and depriving us of our attention, where religion, faith and spirituality and all the practices that come with it actually strengthens our attention generation. He said that when he was talking about social media coming. It's as if the US government went to Alaska and said all the oil is now up for grabs and just you can imagine all the oil companies doing what they can to get as much oil. Yeah, what he said, the oil is now a tension.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the most precious commodity in the Western civilization, is it Simone?
Speaker 1:Weil, yeah, weil, weil, yeah, simone Weil. I think she said something like the most precious gift or anything you can give somebody else is the attention yeah yeah, it's pretty beautiful.
Speaker 1:I was speaking to a rabbi last month in Miami and a question came from one of our people saying why do people close their eyes when they say the Shema prayer? Oh yeah, and the Shema prayer is the most important prayer. Hear or hark Israel, your Lord, god is one. And they close their eyes. And the rabbi said you can't be distracted when you're saying that prayer. You need absolute attention to that. And it reminded me of that Psalm Be Still, psalm 46, I think it is and know that I'm God, so attention is very important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's interesting. Actually, I was reading something, you know, not a Reformed Christian, not an Orthodox Christian, but a Catholic Christian GK Chesterton. Oh yes, on the question of closing your eyes during prayer. Yeah, and he's very interesting because he you know he likes to be a bit kind of snarky. He would have been really good for like x or twitter as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just because his, his lines are kind of very, very clear and he sort of says about the giving thanks for things, which is a slightly different thing from the shemar and in deuteronomy 6, you know, hero as well, the lord, your god as well, but he's talking about about saying grace before meals and he says, okay, you say grace before a meal.
Speaker 2:So you know, let's pray before we eat our food, I say grace before I go to the theatre and and that's the sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, what if the things that we enjoy, the things that are good, are gifts from God rather than being just necessarily distractions, so that they're gifts which you can give your attention to and that there is an act of worship taking place as you look at this thing and say this is great, god is a good God because he provides, he's providing good things in the world, and so we're going to thank him for that. So it raised the question of do you close your eyes? When you say grace over your meal, you know you can look at the food and go, oh, that looks great, right, you know you've got a great big steak and chips in front of you. You're like, yeah, look at that, I'm really excited about that. So those practices, it's still prayer, it's still about the exercise of attention, but it can be physically located, it can be presented to the senses, though obviously the closing your eyes to pray can be a way just to help you yeah, um, help you focus, help you really meditate on on who it is that you're speaking to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, yeah, um to go back to Martin Short again, and you were saying something about these objects in front of us that we can give thanks for. He was saying something like what we continually give our attention to we worship. What you worship is what you give attention to, and so, in a sense, everyone is religious in that sense, because they are either worshipping a football team or an influencer or another person in a relationship.
Speaker 1:But the other thing he says is what we give our attention to, pure attention to, they become holy, the objects become holy. But he says that's also a dangerous thing, because then again we can idolize the wrong things. And it matters what we're putting into our, our senses, through our eyes.
Speaker 1:You know what we, what we're receiving in our ears yeah, it's so important and to come back, you said something about, uh, when you're talking about story story, uh, theory about everyone is in a story, but they're not aware most of the time, not aware. So maybe it would be so good if people knew that that they have a story and they are part. Yeah, and, most importantly, they have a part to play.
Speaker 1:Yeah, things asked of them in this life yeah someone, something needs them, um, and I guess what I'm worried about is the distraction from that like well, yeah, no, I don't know about that, so they don't actually know where they're going or where they come from. Yeah and yeah, I think you're right In terms of the attention that you give.
Speaker 2:That line from Simone Weil about you know, the most precious thing you can give someone is your attention. Or, as Martin Shaw's line about giving your attention, is worship. The really tricky thing in an attention economy is that you are being, you are enslaved by the platform. The biggest capitalist organizations in the world are the ones who are making you work for them. When you're on your phone and you're just sort of scrolling through, so you don't think you're just looking at, you're not looking at TikTok, You're thinking about the particular person who's on TikTok or on that particular video you're not thinking about oh, I'm particularly giving my attention to action. You're absorbed through that, if you like. Like a mirror you're seeing through, or a window you're seeing through that glass, but it's designed to keep you on this particular thing.
Speaker 2:Now, if, if you work for most organizations that make you use a computer at some point, you have to do what's called digital screen training or something health and safety type stuff. Right, there are laws in place in the UK which mean that employers cannot keep their employees on their screens for too long and they have to allow them breaks, like you've got to. Like the your manager has to kind of tap you on the shoulder at some point, say you've been looking at that screen for too long. I need to go rest your eyes and go do something else as well, so that we don't get strained eyes or repetitive strain injury or whatever. It is right the chair that you're sitting in all this sort of stuff right Now.
Speaker 2:When it comes to the smartphone, the internet companies aren't concerned with how much time you're spending on the platform.
Speaker 2:They'll just keep you on there for as long as possible.
Speaker 2:So a lot of the time you can see young people particularly who, when they look at their screen time at the end of the week, they see how many hours a day they've spent just staring at this screen. Yeah, if you were being employed by a company to look at this content, they would have a legal obligation to give you a break, to tell you to stop right, To say put this down and please go and do something else. But of course, because this is a kind of opt-in thing, it's like an educational or entertainment type thing that we're all saying, oh, I'm going to go onto my platform, that we then volunteer ourselves to this kind of slave labor and that, I think is what's really kind of scary is the way in which you know as I say, I use these terms like intentionally screen slavery, screen addiction that these things are a new form of people using technology to oppress other people. You don't feel like you're being oppressed because you're enjoying the kind of, but it's having a really significant impact on us and that's quite important.
Speaker 2:So I just think that's a key thing to put in is to say that what feels to us like a voluntary act us choosing to go into these things very quickly we become dependent on this thing such that you will struggle to get yourself off it, and that's where we kind of need each other to stay alert, to helping each other navigate a world in which most of the stuff we engage with is mediated via a screen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think, in ending, if we can just think and give us a message um, we know that the danger spoke about all the dangers now and all that, and um the last thing you said there but we need each other.
Speaker 1:I think we're social beings yeah if we're distracted and we pull in all the directions, we don't actually see each other, we don't actually know that deeply. Um, so, in a word, or just just briefly yeah, uh, and those I know, you're probably gonna to say go to church, which is good advice, yeah. Or you know, for our Muslim listeners out there, or Buddhists or whatever it is, or atheists, you know, in a short word, what would you say? How do we? What's the what's what now?
Speaker 2:If this is the, problem.
Speaker 1:What do we do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what can we do? There's a funny phrase touch grass. Have you heard that? It's an online kind of phrase and it basically means that someone has been online for too long and they need to go outside and touch the grass.
Speaker 2:So there's a kind of reconnection with the physical, with the three-dimensional, you know, real world thing that people need to do, and I think that at one level there's a kind of thing of that like what are the physical things that we can do, the social things that we can do, that remind us that we're living in? This is the kind of the real world that we're sort of part of. I think that's really helpful. Another thing that people can do, and this, rather than kind of necessarily getting into, okay, here's how you like exercise Christian faith in a way, yeah, a step kind of before that which I think someone like Jordan Peterson as a guy has sort of encouraged a lot of particularly young men to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Is like that's the whole tidier room thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, yes. Like you are, you are not useless. And the problem with the screen is it makes you feel like you're useless. And the problem with the screen is it makes you feel like you're useless. And the problem with just saying to people like, just go and touch grass, it's like I'm still not really doing anything, not contributing anything, whereas I think one of the things, particularly for young people, to get into the practice of doing can be really helpful for them is like, go and serve someone else. Go and do something physical that has a benefit for another human being.
Speaker 2:Um, that is actually the, the calling that you know the christian church has kind of calls us into. You know, christ says I've not come to served, but to serve and to give my life as a ransom for many. So he says, like, the thing I'm going to be spending my time doing is acting in service towards others. Now, primarily as a Reformed Christian, I have to say my faith is in God's service of me, serving me through Christ, which empowers me to then go and serve others, but I can also encourage other people to say look, one of the things that's going to be really helpful for you is go and stack some chairs. Go and unload and load the dishwasher without being asked. Go and bring the shopping in from the car or whatever. It is Like.
Speaker 2:Those sorts of things that we can do for other people help us to recognize that we have agency in the world, we're useful, like when we're using our gifts, you know. It's like. You know. There are all sorts of ways that we can serve other people. Yeah, and one of those might be, as you mentioned earlier on, just giving someone your attention, being physically present with them and just asking them questions, finding out from them. So I think the real encouragement is for our young people. You're not useless. Your life is not about consuming content online. You actually have so much to give and there are so many opportunities. I think we we can encourage each other in doing this.
Speaker 1:Nate, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. A lot of wisdom there and I learned so much, a lot of wisdom there, and I learned so much and I hope our listeners out there get as much as I did. Good, good, well, thanks for having me thank you.